Gagne’s expression sums up how Kings fans feel – Photo: SpatzShots
By Paul Armbruster • KingsNewsDaily.com •
Why?
That’s the question on the minds of many Kings fans this afternoon after it was learned that veteran left winger Simon Gagne was shipped back to the Flyers for a measly 4th round (possibly 3rd round) draft pick after playing only 49 games in for the club. In one of the stranger stints by a high-end player in an LA uniform, Gagne’s short-lived career as a King left little to be desired.
After signing as a free agent in the summer of 2011, it was believed he would help shore-up a weak left side in the Kings lineup. But after only 34 games last year he succumbed to concussion-like symptoms for the remainder of the regular season and deep into the playoffs, only to reemerge in the last 4 games against the Devils to earn his engraving on the Stanley Cup.
Not long after the Cup celebrations were over, it was revealed Simon had neck surgery to remove a benign tumor that limited his mobility and possibly contributed to his concussion-like symptoms. Heading into this year apparently healthy, it seemed he was poised for a solid season for the Kings after the disappointing first year.
But after starting strong in his first 6 games, racking up 5 assists, he trailed off earning no points in what would prove to be his last 5 games as a King. He was then benched for 4 straight games before being shipped back to the team where it all began for the Quebec City native.
So the question remains, why?
Could it be he was unhappy in LA, not unlike a Ryan Smyth type situation? Gagne is married with two young children. Could it be he was disgruntled regarding sitting and watching the last 4 games and Lombardi had seen enough? Or maybe he’s not quite up to speed yet and the Kings don’t feel his effort was strong enough towards returning to his old form. Of course, we don’t know but one thing is clear.
Simon Gagne’s time spent in LA was a huge disappointment.
Update: This from Philly.com’s blog
“I’m happy to get that chance,” Gagne told RDS’ Renaud Lavoie. “It was tough not to play. I’m going to a place I know well. It’s like going home, I know everyone there and I’m going back to where it all started.” The scouting report, according to TSN’s Bob McKenzie, is that Gagne is as healthy as he has been in a long time, but simply did not fit into Kings coach Darryl Sutter’s plans.
Dean Lombardi on Simon Gagne Trade
- “He wasn’t fitting in.”
- “This was not in any way motivated by cash or space.”
Ron Hextall On Simon Gagne Trade
IMHO, the reason is probably a combination of the team being disappointed in his production so far this year and the chance for them to get basically something for nothing (since Gagne was a UFA at the end of the year and the Kings would have had nothing to show for having him sit in the press box for most of his time here).
If Lombardi thought for one second Gagne could help the Kings in the playoffs, it would be well worth it. The sad part is he didn’t, which says a ton about Gagne’s unwillingness to buy in.
Good read, Paul. I’d have to completely agree with you. Huge disappointment, but frees up $3.5M in cap space and Dean got a draft pick. I’d have to think Dean has something else brewing. Maybe not. Either way, Gags just didn’t fit in here anymore.
no surprise…however, i really wanted simone to succeed out here…but he’s just not even close to the dynamic player he was pre-concussion…
in la east, he will be a depth forward and play about 10-12 minutes a game and maybe see some pp2 time…unless, he discovers the fountain of his yoot, i don’t expect him to be an impact player again…
more credence to the fact that the nhl is going to have the same problems that the nfl has with concussions…tough stuff and tough choices lie ahead…
Not enough quality contributions from him. Sutter thought King was outperforming Gagne, which says a lot given King’s near invisibility on the ice so far.
I think he’ll do better with less physicality in his game.
Hell, even Lewis outperformed Gagne. It’s basically his spot that Lewis if filling. That’s pretty pathetic of Gags to, well, gag that hard.
I think he requested the trade because he wasn’t getting any playing time. I can’t think of any other reason to trade him. We don’t need the cap room. Gagne only makes 2.5 million this season, and with the season already 1/3 of the way over, and it being a shortened season as it is, he wasn’t due that much more money on his contract.
I’m wondering who they bring up to replace him? Stewart or Toffoli would be my guess. Then again they might just keep the roster spot open for when Martinez comes back.
Indeed. In the conference call Dean all but said exactly this. He even hinted Gagne was going to ask for a trade if he didn’t get playing time. I just don’t get why he “didn’t fit in.” I’d like more on that.
Always new he was a risk even when the Kings were just ealking to Philly about Gagne. Kings took a risk. Sometimes it pays off (like with Mitchell) and sometimes it doesn’t (like with Gagne). Williams was a risk too and that turned out all right.
1) Doesn’t compliment the King’s style of play
2) 3.5 mil cap hit that isn’t being used
3) too many LW roster players and would of lost someone to wavers
4) We need to restock Manchester with volume of draft picks
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes
As I pointed out below, the question is WHY didn’t he compliment the style of Kings play. I maintain it’s because he chose not to.
To me, Why is easy to answer: Simon Gagne is not a hard checking, balls & guts player (At least anymore). He is a multi-concussion shell of the player he once was. Believe me, I do not blame him for that,. If I had ultiple concussions, I’d be thinking twice before playing like Kyle Clifford or Jordan Nolan, but THAT is the type of player Coach Sutter wants in his lineup and he wants it from the TOP down.
Take Kopitar for example: Haven’t you noticed Anze taking the body more than ever lately? This is the first season I can actually say I’ve seen him be AGGRESSIVE at times when finishing checks (And it’s awesome). He doesn’t do it all the time, but when he does, he is finishing HARD and not just rolling off guys.
I saw Simon do that in ONE game this season, ONE time in his entire tenure here. I was saying after last season that now he’s got his Cup, he should retire for the sake of his family because his play is not up to the level to handle contact in this league anymore. I see him AVOIDING contact when he’s playing. NOT something that will endear him to Coach Sutter.
Gags is a great guy and I totally wish him all the best. IMHO he should retire just for the sake of his family and severity of the amount of concussions he’s had, but I’m not him. I wouldn’t be surprised if maybe he’s been told that on a personal level by some in the organ-eye-zation and it is just not being listened to. Might be the reason as well.
The only problem I have with that is Dean knew full well the type of player he was getting and TM’s system was pretty close to as physically demanding and offensively restrictive as Sutter’s.
judging by dl’s initial comments…or paraphrasing of them by JR on laki…it seems like we might getting another top-4 d-man sooner than later…
a couple of things to consider why this trade was done now..:
- if the kings were limited to spending a certain amount of cap space during this lockout-shortened season, then this move makes sense, IF they are currently trying to replace the losses of willie and greener before the trade deadline…
- gagne was not a good defensive player…and it showed in our system…by going back to la east, gagne will play in a system that better fits his current skill-set…he will probably play about 10-14 minutes a game in a third or fourth line role, getting some pp2 time, as well..
- whether dl is being completely honest or not regarding gagne’s non-request for a trade, you have to believe that this trade was in the works for awhile now, because gagne WAS one of the four skaters on the practice ice today…that could only mean that the hammer finally dropped via philly agreeing to the terms and the kings being somewhat surprised by the deal…i can’t imagine dl taking a risk on gagne at any type of kings hockey-related activities before he trades him…however, i also can’t imaging dl not knowing that a deal to philly was likely to happen – after all, he’s the gm, right…?!
i’m sad that this experiment didn’t work with gagne…however, you wonder if the kings did give him enough time to get back to some sort of version of his previous dynamic, game-changing abilities from his pre-concussion days…
i wish him the best in la east…
the better news is that they are talking to scuds…yaaay…(!)
Hey, some guy on LAKI just stole your post
Isn’t that nice of him? He’s such a pal to double post just for little ole’ me.
sorry…just thought why rephrase what i would say…i know that’s a bit lazy on my part, – all apologies…
but i was pressed for time…
Please. No apologies. I think it’s great and thank you.
Only top 4 defenemen we’ll be getting will come from IR imho. In fact I think it is far more likley that we will dump one of our young defensemen for draft picks and/or 2 way contract players. Probably Dreweski since he is an UFA in July.
Agreed. Whiskey seems the odd man out if/when Greene and/or Mitchell come back.
Roster spot and cap space freed up = Win-for Kings
Familiar Flyer sweater + back in lineup = Win for Gagne
$3.5M cap hit + ineffective on back end + 70% of “old Gagne” = Loss for Flyers
True but the Kings hardly got a return on their investment in Gagne. Bust.
Yeah, was a Bust imho, but hind sight is 20/20. Who knows though, Flyers make the playoffs and it turns into a number 3?
I think the key, which wasn’t brought up in the call, is how the ‘not fitting in’ part relates to Sutter. I think he is the main reason behind this in that Dean values his opinion and if Sutter said he wasn’t getting along with the rest of the guys, it might just be one of those things where he felt like Simon wasn’t buying into the team concept. Remember, in the call Dean said how much he knows the guys in the room care about each other. If you have one guy, especially a veteran (and second oldest guy on the team), who isn’t ‘caring’ as much as the others it can quickly affect the overall mood. It seems to me this wasn’t as much an ability or effort decision as it was a personality one. Of course, as he said it had nothing to do with the cap or cash.
I think you’re reading too much into “not fitting in”. I thiit for Gags.k it simply is Gags current game just doesn’t fit the Kings game. That’s all. Dean just wanted to take care of Gags, a little before he would’ve come to Dean and ask for a trade.
Dean didn’t need cap space nor cash necessarily, but he did it for Gags.
Simple. Not fitting in doesn’t always mean there’s problems. It could just mean things just aren’t simpatico or meshing.
I really don’t believe for one second a pro like Gagne can’t figure out how to adapt to a system. It’s not about meshing, it’s about choosing not to try to mesh. I said above it wasn’t about “ability or effort decision as it was a personality one,” but I didn’t make the connection between how a lack of effort (or buying in) is the personality problem.
Good take. Sounds plausable to me because he sure didn’t look like he had a problem skating. Gagne just never seem to get the flow of our system and would rarely finish a check.
I think the whole “not fitting in” thing has to do with Gagne’s “understandable” hesitance to play physically. Of course, Gagne is never going to be a physical force, but like a Loktionov he never learned to be effective in puck battles. When you play systems built on winning puck battles in a tight-checking game, you better be able to at least out-position guys (like Voynov does) when you don’t use brute physicality to beat them. And, it’s obvious Sutter demands a full effort traveling both directions on the ice. Gagne was unable to effectively battle for the puck with any consistency in either end, he was understandably “cautious” when entering a puck battle, but he didn’t really “check” anyone and he for sure dogged it on the backcheck. I felt his game really stood out in the playoffs as being soft, and it was again understandable given the concussion history; problem is, you don’t get goals for having “understandable” problems playing the Sutter game.
If Gagne is afraid to battle for pucks, then why even play? It’s not like he used to play physical and that’s why he got concussions. If he’s always played the way he plays now then I don’t thing being cautious is going to help him and may make matters worse in some instances.
He didn’t want to play the way Sutter (and TM before him) wanted him to but that is a personal choice. Lombardi knew full well the type of player he was when he signed him. Gagne choosing to not buy in is the reason for this move I believe and not the simple idea that he ‘just’ doesn’t fit the system. That’s why I think it’s essentially a personality thing and not an inability of a highly skilled pro to adapt. Maybe you’re right about him being hesitant of physical play overall but I think he’s mainly just hesitant to work his ass off.
Isn’t “Gagne choosing to not buy in”, “he’s mainly just hesitant to work his ass off” the same as “the simple idea that he ‘just’ doesn’t fit the system” ?
I mean the entire basis of Sutter’s system is centered around ‘Buying In’ and ‘Working your ass off’. If Gags didn’t buy in, he didn’t fit Sutter’s system.
Besides, Deano has too much class to come out and publicly say that about Gags, especially since he’s the one who signed him up. Gags lack of physical play, especially during puck battles, didn’t help his cause.
Not really. Loktionov and Moller are ‘just don’t fit the system’ guys. Gagne has all the ability in the world to take on the assignments Sutter gave him. Choosing not to is a willful decision. I view it as two separate things. I agree though about Dean not throwing the guy under the bus. It serves no purpose.
I gotta disagree here P. Moller fit Sutter’s crash & bang system much more than Terry Murray’s ‘Defense first – rely on top 6 to score’ system. When I spoke to Luc Robitaille a few years back, we had a long discussion about Moller to which Luc said ‘If Moller can’t play top 6, he’s no good to us here’. Remember, this is when TM ran the ship and top 6 meant top 6. Sutter has a top 6 that changes every 5 seconds, depending on the feel of the game.
Moller would be a ‘Sutter Guy’ for sure. Look at Trevor Lewis. Sutter LOVES him. He’s only 6′ 1″ 195lb or so. Moller is only 2 inches shorter and 10 pounds lighter. Same skill set. Lewis had TONS of trouble under TM and was drafted 1st round as a scoring threat. Did he become that? TL changed his game, even with his smaller stature, and his work ethic under Sutter has earned him high praise and ice time. I truly believe if Oscar Moller was here right now, at the very least he would have Richardson’s spot and would get ice time on occasion because of his speed and work ethic alone. Moller would change his game and thrive under Sutter.
Now with Lokti, I would agree. His game is completely different than Moller or Lewis. He’s like Gagne. Avoids contact in the corners, a finesse guy. THOSE are his qualities. I think Lokti and Gagne always put the full effort in at practice, just not the style of effort Sutter wanted and both were not willing to change like Moller and Lewis.
All players have to make a choice to ‘Buy In’. If they don’t, they don’t fit. It just seems the same to me.
Excellent take Cynic. Really solid analysis. I think the only thing you’re not giving enough credence to is Moller’s size. But I agree with how he is a different type of player and much more suited to Sutter’s style. Man I miss that little guy.
Wassup Cynic!?
You said exactly what I was gonna say back, Lombardi is saying the same thing as Paul, just saying it the nice way because it’s being said publicly.
To expand on my earlier points, Paul, I think battling cautiously in the corners is just one part of what Sutter considers “working hard.” I sw many times where Gagne did not backcheck rigorously, and one of them was a last shift for him in the 2nd period. He was demoted that game to the 4th line, and was scratched the next game.
I also don’t think Gagne really held the puck, absorbing time like the rest of the top 6 do on possession cycles. It’s not like Gagne was a bum, it’s just that including his usual style of play, fear of re-injury, old habits, or whatever, the result was a guy that could not adapt to the Sutter culture.
Under Murray, it was a containment game first; forecheck was good, but the style was dictated by never letting guys get behind us for outnumbered attacks, which was accomplished by backing up and always keeping inside position. That can be done a bit more easily for a Gagne, where it is less physically confrontational and more positionally sound. Not a huge difference, but significant.
Under Sutter, it’s a disruption game first. Physical confrontation, insistence on forcing contact, aggressive puck positioning and pursuit, and above all a backcheck with all 5 men doing a sort of leapfrogging positional resistance. (That term leapfrog is gonna be in an article soon, don’t tell anyone) It’s harder for a Gagne to hide, or go unnoticed, under Sutter’s system, and anyway Sutter is gonna see it right away.
Yo X! Totally concur here. You could see Gagne’s fear of physicality in his debut last night against the Caps. Yes, he scored (Garbage goal, right place @ right time), but I watched him float around puck battles instead of actively digging in them, almost waiting for his linemates to do the dirty work. Only if he had no choice would he go in. The second guessing is obvious to me.
I think that they had a plan, but that plan has since changed,
I believe they were trying out a new system, I don’t think what we saw the first few games was cup hangover or memory loss. I don’t think the Kings are re-awakening.
I believe it was a failed system change, a trial if you will.
Something to increase scoring and offense.
Now we are seeing things going back to what worked.
In that transition we will see player and role changes.
DL and DS are in for the long haul while trying to maintain a dominance now too.
It. Oils also have been a psyological move, nearing on a bet to play that way.
Everyone was eyeing us, everyone thinks they have our number.
But then again I could be over thinking it!
all-in-all, gagne’s run with us was no different than cloutier or anson carter or nagy or sturm or mccauley, etc…
i understand dl’s fascination, confidence and loyalty to players who are looking to comeback from major injury…although the names above were busts in our colors, dl has had some success taking chances on injured players…handzus, jeff carter, mitchell and fraser are recent high-risk/high-reward deals that come to mind who have had success with us after coming back from the IR on the previous team…
either way, gagne didn’t work out…and he didn’t have a crazy contract…so, he was expendable simply based upon his performance and the obvious fact that he wasn’t the right fit in our system…
awesome discussion, ARMY…:)
sometimes you win…sometimes you lose…sometimes you gotta spill the news to me…:)